In the end, the Gaza battle protests sweeping campuses are about influencing Israeli politics. The protesters need to use financial divestment, American strain and coverage, and a broad sense of worldwide outrage to alter the choices being made by Israeli leaders.

So I needed to know what it’s like to look at these protests from Israel. What are Israelis seeing? What do they make of them?

[You can listen to this episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” on the NYT Audio App, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.]

Ari Shavit is an Israeli journalist and the writer of “My Promised Land,” the most effective ebook I’ve examine Israeli id and historical past. “Israelis are seeing a special battle than the one which Individuals see,” he tells me. “You see one battle movie, horror movie, and we see at dwelling one other battle movie.”

This can be a dialog about attempting to push divergent views into relationship with one another: On the protests, on Israel, on Gaza, on Benjamin Netanyahu, on what it means to take societal trauma and concern critically, on Jewish values, and extra.

You’ll be able to hearken to our entire dialog by following “The Ezra Klein Present” on the NYT Audio App, Apple, Spotify, Google or wherever you get your podcasts. View a listing of ebook suggestions from our company right here.

(A full transcript of this episode can be obtainable inside 24 hours of publication within the audio participant above.)

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Present” was produced by Claire Gordon and Rollin Hu. Truth-checking by Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker and Kristin Lin. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with extra mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The present’s manufacturing staff additionally contains Annie Galvin and Michelle Harris. Unique music by Isaac Jones. Viewers technique by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The manager producer of New York Occasions Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Particular due to Lydia Polgreen, Dalit Shalom and Sonia Herrero.

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